please all rise for a worship the Mayor
Karen Vernon
good evening everyone it's now
6:30 p.m. and I'll declare this ordinary
council meeting of the Town of Victoria
Park is open i'd like to invite Deputy
Mayor Ife to read the acknowledgement of
country please
?
I'm honored to be standing on country
on the banks of the Swan
I acknowledge the traditional
custodians of this land and respect past
present and emerging leaders their
continuing cultural heritage beliefs and
relationship with the land which
continues to be important today
I thank them for the contribution made
to life in the Town of Victoria Park and
to this
region thanks Deputy Mayor Ife please be
seated formally good evening everyone
beginning with item two on the agenda
announcements from the presiding member
recording and live streaming of
proceedings in accordance with Clause 39 of
the Town of Victoria Park meeting
procedures local law
2019 as the presiding member are hereby
give my permission for the
administration to record proceedings of
this meeting it follows that I don't
provide permission for another party to
record the meeting this meeting is also
being live streamed on the town's
website by being present at this meeting
members of the public consent to the
possibility that their image and voice
may be live streamed to the public
recordings of this meeting are also made
available on the town's website
following the meeting 2.2 is public
question time and public statement time
there are guidelines that need to be
adhered to in our Council meetings and
during question and statement time
people speaking are not to personalize
any questions or statements about
elected members or staff or use any
possible defamatory remarks in
accordance with Clause 40 of the Town of
Victoria part meeting procedures local
law
2019 a person addressing the Council
shall extend due courtesy and respect to
the council and the processes under
which it operates and shall comply with
any direction by the presiding member a
person present at or observing a meeting
shall not create a disturbance at a
meeting by interrupting or interfering
with the proceedings whether by
expressing approval or dissent by
conversing or by any other means when
the presiding member speaks during
public question time or public statement
time any person then speaking is to
immediately stop and every person
present is to preserve strict silence so
that the presiding member may be heard
without interruption as per our usual
practice we sorry we have a limit of
three questions per person and a maximum
of two minutes for the making of
statements of course if there are
very few people who wish to ask
questions we can certainly look at
more questions if more are requested to
be asked in accordance with Clause 56
of the town's meeting procedures local
law both elected members and the public
when speaking are not to reflect
adversely on the character or actions of
elected members or
employees there's only a couple of
quick announcements and the rest of the
Mayor's report will be published in the
minutes of the meeting in due course
I do want to reflect on the passing
of Gwyneth Chepalius
I am hoping that I've got the
correct pronunciation of her name she
was the founder of the Jirdarup
Bushland in that day it was the friends
of ? Bushland and she passed
away in late February she played a
significant role in not only founding
the friends but building them to the
point where they are today she
continued to be a huge supporter of them
even after she'd stepped away from her
many leadership roles both with the
friends and other groups and so much
so that last year she although ill was
able to attend the launch of the friends
of Jirdarup Bushland's first book
and she was delighted to see the
progress that the friends group
continued to make in the preservation
and enhancement of that very special
part of the world so on behalf of
council we extend our condolences to the
family and friends of Gwyneth Chepalius and
thank her for that significant
contribution to basically the natural
environment in our town also just
as a note for what is coming up a couple
of quick public service announcements
the town will again be celebrating
with an Anzac Day Dawn service on the
25th of April starting at 6:00 a.m. in
Memorial Gardens members of our
community are welcome to come along to
this important
commemoration also on the same day of
the 25th of April those who are
interested in our exciting Urban Forest
at home program will be delighted to
know that online orders will be open
as of the 25th of April for you to get
your order in for seedling plants and trees
supplies and approximately 4 weeks later
on the 25th of May the urban forest at
home collection day will be at the Town
of Victoria Park's Depot at 199 Star
Street in Welshpool so exciting times
ahead coming up for all of us item
three on the agenda is attendance we
have all elected members in attendance
and we have a number of members of
the executive and towns administration
led by the CEO Mr Anthony Vuleta we
have no apologies and we have no
approved leave of absence before I
conclude that part about the attendance
I would just like to say for the
record for those who are not aware
and an official announcement will follow
Mr CEO has handed in his resignation
as of last week and will be leaving
us to take up a new challenge as the
chief executive officer of the City of
Kalamunda we will say much more about
him and his contribution to the town on a
later date but just to let everyone
know and so needless to say we
appreciate all the contributions
you've made to date and we know that you
are looking forward and we are excited
for the opportunity that presents itself
for your future so moving along to
item four which is declarations of
interest Mr CEO do we have any
declarations of interest yes we do
Madame Mayor item
22.1.1 Mr Anthony Vuleta Financial
interest the item relates to the
contract of my employment item 12.3
Council Peter Devereux impartiality interest
I've received an email from Jeremy
Hofflin of Rowe group about this item
item 13.3 Council Peter Devereux impartiality
interest I spoken with CEO about Klaus
? thank you about this item about
his preference while
widening the width to 3m to keep the
paths the clay poly and the clay polymer
surface
thank you Mr CEO are there any other
declarations of interest that people
would like to make councelor Melrosa
impartiality on 12.3 I also received an
email from the
applicant all right thank you
councelor Melrosa so if we can get you
to send through a formal notification
of that declaration please at the end
of the meeting I'm also going to make
a declaration for it
13.3 which is impartiality I've had
communications with Klaus ? on
behalf of the friends of Jirdarup
Bushland about the issues raised
in the officers report and I'll send
that declaration through there any other
declarations of interest that need to be
made no all right on that basis we'll
move on to item five on the agenda which
is public question time and at
6:39 p.m. we declare public question
time is
open first on the list Oscar
Foster please come forward state your
name and your
suburb Oscar Foster is Victoria
Park if staff are working from home why
do we need a new Administration Building
at John McMillan
Mr Foster you make that
question as though all the staff of the
town of Victoria Park are working from
home and they clearly are not so
consideration has been given to the
future accommodation needs of the town
as an organization and that's why this
matter is being considered so not all
the staff at the Town of Victoria Park
are working from home do you have
another
question during last week how many staff
worked from home and how many worked in
the
office going to direct that question
to the manager of governance and
strategy is that a question that's
suitable for answering a council
meeting it's not actually related to
council business that's probably better
directed to the
administration all right so Mr Foster
that's a question that you can send in
to the town staff to the attention of
the CEO do you have a third question do
you allow staff to bring their pet dogs
to work in the
office no do you have another question
no all right thank you next on the
list Vince Maxwell
good evening mayor and
counselors Vince Maxwell from Victoria
Park the rental vacancy rate is
currently less than 1% in what the media
is describing as a housing crisis what
is the council doing to help alleviate
the shortage shortage of
housing direct that question to the
chief Community planner Miss Martin
good through the chair while it's not
local government's role to provide
housing certainly the local planning
strategy and the recently adopted new
town planning scheme does allow for not
just a variety of housing types but
also different different levels of
value in terms of affordable housing
so that is the role of town planning
scheme to provide those those
opportunities for
developers the next question Mr
Maxwell unfortunately planning
schemes a pretty long process it's not
going to solve the problem people and
even families are living in tense
because there aren't any houses why
don't you mayor make your empty house in
sbur Road available to rent Mr
Maxwell I'm not going to ask answer
questions that are of a personal nature
directed to me because they're not the
business of council do you have a third
and final
question last year the council
slapped a 40% increase on vacant land to
encourage people from sitting on empty
land will the council consider putting a
similar rate increase on people are
sitting on empty
houses such a proposal is not under
consideration by council at the moment
if it does come under consideration from
Council in the future it will be in a
report to council and members of the
public can read it those are your
three questions Mr Maxwell I do need to
ask if there are other members of the
public who have questions that they wish
to to
ask are there any other members of the
public Gallery who wish to ask questions
yes sir please come forward and state
your name and your
suburb my name is Max Pell I live in
East Victoria Park it's more of a
statement today so we do have a
separate item on the agenda for making
statements and that's when obviously get
that opportunity this is really just
about questions so if there's anything
that a part of your statement you would
like to know about there is an
opportunity if you ask it in a question
and if the staff here are able to answer
that we can do that now for you no all
right thank you are there any other
questions no there being no other
questions I will close public
question time at 6:43 p.m. we now
move to item six on the agenda which
is public statement time
Max P please come forward you're on
the
list sorry about that Max pel from East
Victoria Park I would just like to
encourage the council to consider
applying for a Streets Alive Grant to
conduct some consultation of from
town of Victoria Park residents the
focus of that consultation would be on
determining where there is appetite to
reduce the speed limit on access roads
from 50ks an hour to 40ks an hour which
is now allowable by main
roads and the intent of this
consultation would then to be to
leverage future grant funding
opportunities to actually Implement that
speed limit reduction so these
certainly certain roads in big park
access roads particularly in East big
Park would be very suited to a 40K speed
limit and I think there would be broad
public support for this so I guess I'm
just putting it out there for the staff
to consider taking up this grant
funding opportunity and conducting some
public
Outreach thanks Mr bushel before you
go just break slightly from tradition
because this is a topic that the town is
working on going to invite the CEO to
let you know some of the things that we
are doing in this space collaboratively
with some other local governments
that might be helpful for you to know Mr
CEO thanks Madame May we're aware of the
grants and we will be looking at those
grants but also in collaboration with
the inner city Perth group which is
five councils all looking at trying to
do to implement a potential 40 km speed
zone within that whole area so that's
our Approach at this point in time we
have actually had conversations as part
of our advocacy agenda obviously we
still need to engage with Community
however we are looking at trying to
do that
together and the Perth inner city group
is the cities of Perth South Perth subo
Vincent and the town of Victoria Park
and the City of Vincent is already well
underway or I think has completed the
first 6 months of their 40 km Tri per
hour trial and so we're obviously taking
the learnings from them and the idea as
the Group shares it with a intention for
the entire region to look at rolling
it out so that might be something that's
of interest to you we don't spend a lot
of time talking about this because it
sometimes will come to a council report
but sometimes not at the right time when
people want to hear it so i' be of
interest to you to know that thank you
thank you are there any other statements
from members of public Gallery Mr
Maxwell please come
forward Vince Max well big
part I'm just looking at the answers
provided in the agenda tonight I see the
council is still planning to cut down
what it's 32 trees at Edward Millan plus
allowing Black Oak to cut down another
16 so a couple of years ago the rap
payers Association did a lot of research
on the types and ages of the trees that
were planned for Destruction and the
youngest tree was 20 years old the
oldest over 60 I think that most normal
people would consider a 20-y old tree as
well established and worthy of
preservation the council appears to hold
two different positions on the on one
hand Property Owners should be forced to
reserve trees on private land and on the
other hand the council are quite
prepared to see 48 wellestablished trees
on public land destroyed without batting
an eyelid I don't know if you are aware
that the reason the majority of those
trees form a line along the natural
Contour of the land it is because there
used to be a wooden fence along there
and the trees were planted along the
fence line that historical fact alone
should be reason enough to consider the
Heritage value of those trees if you do
not value the trees for what they are
then maybe the history surrounding their
placement might provide some inspiration
if you want to increase the tree canopy
then lead by example cutting down your
own trees and then waving a stick of
property owners I can't see how that's
going to
work thank you thanks Mr Maxwell are
there any other statements from the
public Gallery no then at 648 p.m. I
close public statement time item seven
on the agenda is confirmation of minutes
and receipt of notes from any agenda
briefing For so the recommendation is
that Council one confirms the minutes of
the ordinary council meeting held on 19
March 2024 two confirms the minutes the
special council meeting held on 18 March
2024 three receives the notes The mura
Advisory Group meeting held on the 3r of
April 2024 4 receives the notes of the
agenda briefing For held on 2 April
202 4 and five receives the notes of the
access and inclusion Advisory Group
meeting held on the 27th of March 2024
can I seek a mover and a seconder please
for the officer
recommendation so that is moved
councelor hmer and seconded Deputy Mayor
I councelor hmer do you wish to be
heard no Deputy Mayor I do you wish to
be heard no I'll formally ask is there
any
disent there being no descent declare
that carried unanimously thank
you next item is item eight which is
presentation of minutes from external
bodies recommendation is that Council
one receives the minutes of the Metro
inner development
assessment meeting held on 28 March 2024
two receives the minutes of the the
metro in a development assessment
meeting held on 19 March 2024 and three
receives the minutes the menari regional
council meeting held on 29 February
2024 respect to
two points one and two should be
development assess panel in both one
and
two but in any event that is the
recommendation so can I seek a mover and
a
second moved councel Mel Rosa
seconded Deputy Mayor I councelor Mel
Rosa do you wish to be heard no deputy
mayor I who wish we heard no all right
thank you formally
asked is there
any I declare that unanimously thank
you item nine on the agenda is
presentations 9.1 is petitions we have
none 9.2 is presentations we have none
item 9.3 is deputations we have
none item 10 is method of dealing with
the gender business the
recommendation is that the following
items be adopted by section resolution
and the remaining items be deed
separately 11.1 Council resolution
status report March
2024 12.1 the 2023 24 Economic
Development grants
recommendation 12.2 mindera Advisory
Group terms of reference for endorsement
13.3 Kent Street sand pet approval to
change proposed pathway materiality 14.1
financial
statement 4.2 schedule of February
2024 are all of those items suitable
for remaining in Council
Deo I'd like to see 13.3 taken off
the exception list please may
Vernon all right we'll take 13.3 out so
it'll be 11.1 12.1 12.2 14.1 and
14.2 can I have a move in a second to
please for the officer's recommendation
so that is moved councelor
minson seconded councelor Cruiser
councelor Minon do you wish to be heard
no councilor Cruiser no all right
formally ask is there any descent there
being no descent to CL that carried
unanimously thank you next item on
the list we come to the chief
executive officer reports item 11 that's
already been passed by exception
resolution so now come to item 12 which
is the chief Community planner
reports item 12.1 has already been dealt
with by exception resolution item
12.2 also already dealt with by way of
exception resolution item 12.3 is the
state development assessment unit
referral for proposed residential
apartments and Commercial tency
the recommendation for this is a lengthy
one it appears on pages 24 through to 26
of the agenda I don't intend to read
out the entirety of the recommendation
save that the recommendation is that
Council advises the wa Planning
Commission that the development
application for the proposed mixed use
development at nbers 167 and 169 Bank
Street East Victoria Park is not
supported by the town so now now
seeking a mover and a seconder for the
officer recommendation
please so that is moved councelor minson
seconded councelor Cruiser councelor
Minon did you wish to be heard no
councelor Cruiser did you wish to be
heard at this time yep all
right I just want to speak to this
very briefly to say that I do think that
we urgently need more housing available
and particularly affordable housing that
is close to transport but the
recommendations that we've had from the
staff have highlighted very serious
concerns around this application
including around storm water drainage
around bicycle
storage and around ventilation and
air flow within the apartments I feel
like it's very important that we think
about ensuring that people have access
to affordable housing accessible housing
housing that meets the accessibility
criteria which it is uncertain that
this does and also housing that is
Affordable to live in not just to buy or
rent if you are having to spend a bunch
of money to heat or cool your house
because it is not designed in an energy
efficient way that is not going to be
affordable to live in and that is my
reason for voting down a proposal
that I would otherwise love to
support thanks Council Cruiser Council
Deo I understand you have an amendment
for this
item yes
may I did circulate the amendment
earlier should I read it out I think
you will need to yes
please so my amendment is to item
12.3 saying that below 14 of the
officer recommendation that the words
are added that in the event the SDA
approves the proposed residential
apartments and commercial tency that the
conditions provided in attachment 13
draft without prejudice conditions be
provided to the SDA for consideration
with the exception of 19 and 22 which
would be amended to read as follows 19
amended plans are to be submitted for
approval by the department of planning
lands and Heritage which reduce the
nber of on-site car parking Bays to a
nber deemed acceptable by the
department in recognition of the site
context adjacent to a major public
transport node and item 22 prior to
submission of an application for the
relevant building permit storage details
of a minim 85 residential bicycle
stores including a mixture of security
levels a b and c as outlined in OS roads
and the relevant Australian standard
including the ability to accommodate
cargo bikes Trikes and electric bikes
must be submitted to and approved by the
department of planning lands and
Heritage this bicycle storage is to be
installed in accordance with the
approved details prior to the occupation
of strata titling of the buildings which
ever occurs first to the satisfaction of
the Department of planning lands and
Heritage shall I outline my reason
outline your reasons yes please so my
reason is that there are a large nber
of design concerns about the pro
proposal that have been provided in the
officers report and these need to be
addressed in the event that the proposal
was approved by the SDA Point 19 of the
report is suggested to be amended
because of the immediate proximity of
the development to a major public
transport node and so vehicle parking
can be minimized to encourage mode shift
in line with the town's integrated
transport strategy I note also that the
officers report highlights on page 34
that under the policy design principle
of landscape quality the below ground
basement parking makes it difficult for
the development to provide adequate deep
soil areas areas moreover the Metronet
Precinct guidel guidelines for
sustainability require that parking is
considered holistically within station
station precincts to ensure the
development of a walkable Urban
form additionally a small amendment
was all suggested also suggested in
response to counciler Cruiser's bike
security question so I've now included
the resulting suggested change to 21
also with her agreement thank you
thanks councilor Deo can I just raise
two quick things with you before I seek
a seconder you just said item 21
is I thought I was reading the latest
edition and it had item 22 it is
definitely
21 I thought I said 22 M but no you
said 20 item 21 just as you were
finishing off what you were reading
about councilor Cruiser there want to be
clear that there wasn't any difference
there but if it is 22 that's all good
cuz that's what's on the paper that I
have that was by you you definitely said
the words 21 okay my apologies I make
sure you wer talking about 21 and not 22
no my apologies I've somehow read that
incorrectly and the second thing was I
was wanting to ask you if you would
be prepared to
slightly amend the nber 13 in the
second sentence where it says provided
an attachment 13 it's actually
attachment
12.3.3 to the agenda so just to make it
precise cuz all the other of course Very
happily accept that
suggest thank you all right now seek a
seconder for councelor deo's
Amendment right that's seconded by
councelor Miles councelor dero do you
wish to speak further to your proposed
amendment I might just speak briefly if
I can May Vernon as was outlined in a
good detail in the officers report there
are a series of design concerns about
this proposal and given the proposal
is going to the sdu I guess there's
concern that perhaps it might be
approved and in that instance I was
Keen as discussed at the ABF to see that
we might be at a provide some
suggestions of how the proposal could be
improved if that was the case and so
we talked at the ABF and the staff have
now provided largely those
suggested possible areas for
improvement and I've requested
that they be included in this
recommendation with a couple of small
amendments as discussed but I
encourage people to to support the
amendment thank you thanks Council Deo
Council miles did you wish to be heard
as the second no I formally ask is there
any descent Council
Homer in desent or you have a question
descent yep yep all right so on that
will move to debate so since you're
in descent you now thanks v I
would raise my descent against this item
only for the reason I wouldn't be for
reducing the nber of par Bays we don't
have parking maxims in this area and
there was a Zero Motorcycle Bays
provided in the plans so any extra
parking Bays could be used for
motorcycle Bays as they also weren't
mentioned in the second part of the
amendment so for those two reasons I
wouldn't be supporting either points
that were submitted thanks all right
thanks Council Homer is there anyone who
now wishes to se
yes I think that is important that we
make housing available you know train
stations that we encourage mode shift
and also that we make it very very easy
for people to store bicycles securely
and use them securely including people
who want to use cargo bikes to get
around people who want to use electric
bikes that they might not be comfortable
storing in insecure storage
and also that families that want
to get around with cargo bikes can do
that also for people who might not be
might have balance issues and can't use
two wheel bike trucks are
increasingly an important available
option and as Council Deo said this
is housing that is right near the train
station is the perfect place to not
require high levels of parking
thanks Council Cruiser anyone wish to
speak against the proposed amendment
question yes councilor M Rosa you wish
to ask a question I'm just wondering
about the two amendments to the 19
condition and 22 condition has the
town's officers provided any advice
around the wording in these
conditions my understanding is they have
but I'll direct that to Miss Martin good
through the chair yes staff has
provided comments and very graciously
councilors have taken those comments on
board all right anyone wish to speak
against anyone else wish to speak on the
item before I put it back to the
Mover Council Deo to close the debate no
no one else wishes to speak councilor
Deo do you wish to close the
debate just very briefly May ver I I
think certainly this is an
interesting proposal I think in the long
term the town is looking at how we
can better plan around this area
while this proposal is preempting those
plans and therefore we the town
has suggested we we don't support it at
this stage I did think it was
important to have the conditions
clear because I think for us to be able
to have Transit oriented development in
the future we want to make clear the
sort of design principles that we do
want to include
around transport nodes and I'm really
appreciative of the staff time that
they've taken to provide those in
some detail and I think that's
really helpful so I commend the
Amendment to everyone thank
you thanks councilor Deo can now ask
everyone to vote on the amendment please
voting is not
open e
I request my vote be recorded as in
favor of the amendment so I can't seem
to get electronic voting to work at the
moment
all right so we now go back to the
substantive item as amended and I'm
going to formally ask is there any
descent to the item as amended no there
being no descent declare that courage
unanimously thank
you thanks councilor Deo for the
proposed amendment to that which is now
carried we'll now move on to item 13
the chief operations officer reports
item 13.1 is organizational location
business case review of McMillan
Precinct as the preferred option I
wish to move a procedural motion that
this item 13.1 be referred to a workshop
for elected
members in brief my reason for doing
that is to provide a fuller opportunity
for all of
council to consider the extensive
background to the McMillan Precinct
master plan project as well as the
future organizational needs analysis of
the town of Victoria Park can I have a
seconder please for my procedural
motion seconded councelor hmer
procedural motions elected members no
are not argued so they're not subject
to any discussion they're just subject
to voting so could you all please vote
now in relation to the procedural
motion the procedural motion is
carried unanimously thank you item item
13.2 is Mallen Park active area design
outcomes based on Grant success the
recommendation is that Council Notes One
the revised design as per attachment one
for the McCull Park active area design
and two the successful outcome of the
community Sport and Recreation
facilities fund and investing in our
community's grants can I seek please
a mover and a seconder for the officer's
recommendation
coun so moved councelor minson seconded
councel miles councel minson did you
wish to be heard on this
item Council miles did you to be heard
no I wish to move an amendment to
this item the amendment is to add
in a third point to the
item which to tidy it up will require
the removal I think or the change of the
word council notes so that it reads
properly but item three to the
recommendation will read as follows
request the CEO to investigate the
feasibility and cost of including the
junior Skate and Scoot as per the
original approved concept plan into the
proposed Zone and bring a report back to
council by May
2024 before the project is put out for
tender my reason for moving this
amendment is to see if there is a
possibility at the same time that we are
delivering this project that we can
actually include the very small area on
the original proposal which was designed
for effectively a training learning
track for really young children to
learn how to skate and ride their
bicycles so it's only seeking a
quick report on the feasibility of it
and the cost before we get to the
stage of advancing this
project could I have a second to please
for the proposed
Amendment so my amendment is seconded
by Deputy Mayor e I'll only just
speak really quickly a lot of
community consultation went into the
Mallen Park active Zone that work
started in
2009 it did result in a very
ambitious plan for the active Zone that
had a lot of Fe features to it and
obviously in the intervening years as
we've lobbied and successfully obtained
some external grant funding there has
been terrible cost escalations and so
the current revised design that
was submitted for the final part of
the grant funding with the
csrf saw a rationalized design and as
per the answers to the questions that
were given from the town staff at the
agenda briefing for
appears to be some space still available
to include very small Junior Skate and
Scoot and it might not necessarily be
a very expensive item to construct but
if there is an opportunity to do it the
most timely way and cost-efficient way
is to do it at the same time the project
would be delivered so that's the reason
for asking for some feasibility and
costings on it Deputy Mayor e did you
wish to be heard look I need to say that
I think it's lovely if we are able to
incorporate this if possible not only
for junior people but also maybe for
moms in their 40s who can't do the big
stuff
either all right thanks defy M so I'll
formally ask if there's any descent
because that will determine if we need
to go to debate is there any descent oh
Council mson yes sure yeah just a quick
question just looking for some advice
from the town regarding the timing
if they're comfortable to bring back a
report on that within a few weeks
so I had sent through a request
with some wording to the town and gave
them June and it was the town staff
who wrote back saying Bring It Forward
to me my understanding is that's
about a budget issue Mr
Churchill through the chair
tenders are due to go out in June so
it's actually driven by needing to
resolve whether this is in attender or
not to hit our timeline so so I
guess it is a a feasibility with a with
a costing and any budget or timing
implications we've been working on it
already so I I don't think it's a
problem to deliver by that time
frame thank you all right so formally
ask any
descent no there being no descent to the
proposed amendment declare that carried
unanimously thank you so go back to the
substantial recommendation as amended is
there any descent no there being no
descent declare that Carriage
unanimously thank you thank you everyone
item 13.3 Kent Street sand pit
approval to change proposed pathway
materiality the recommendation is that
Council one notes that the perimeter and
internal paths within Kent Street sand
pit will be 3 m wide red asphalt and two
approves a second entry point that may
be needed for emergency services access
and egress in accordance with defs
requirements once revegetation efforts
have commenced in 2025 26 I have a mover
and seconder please for the officer
recommendation moved Council hmer
seconded Council miles council hmer did
you wish to be
heard I did had a couple questions first
please the questions were curious to
know if
the if this Ken Street s didn't have any
paths constructed would the defs
department require pass to be built or
would they allow no pass to be
built going to direct that question to
the chief operations officer Ms
Adams thank you through the chair so
it's probably worth noting that we are
constructing and restoring it now and
because we're interfering with the site
we are bound to comply with the
regulations so that's probably why
you know in terms of you're asking about
K Street s not having any parts
constructed now would we be able to keep
it like that so when we're now
constructing it there is a liability on
the town to provide access that's
trafficable for defers the minim
standard is limestone we can't have
Limestone because of the restoration
effs but we also from the concept
plan had an endorsed design that
actually wanted accessible Pathways as
well so that's where we
planted okay so any Pathways that are
constructed have to be at their
at their
specifications M
Adams through the chair any Pathways
have to be
trafficable that's their requirements
and a 3 m wide minim but we're
coupling that with the feedback we've
had in the endorsed design that says it
also has to be
accessible okay thanks the second
question was if the council don't
support this change of width and
construction what's the worst case
scenario M
Adams so through the chair
just referring back to the
recommendation it's actually that
Council notes that the prent internal
parts will be 3 met wide red ash vault
so strictly speaking we are
we're complying with the def requirement
for trafficable Access so we're
not you know not requesting that we
ask for a change from the the the width
from the primary pathway staying at 3 m
and the secondary pathway going from 2
to three we do need to do that in
terms of not complying the town wouldn't
recommend that we don't
comply
okay and lastly if a fire did occur and
it was at the center of the area out
of the 30 m reach of the fire truck and
the fire truck then drove down the path
cracking the side because it wasn't 3 m
and
trafficable would this be a similar
cost to replace the broken sections as
replacing burnt melt red
bitman M
Adams if I could just clarify through
the chair are you asking for there to
be a 2 m wide trafficable portion and
potentially half a meter either side non
trafficable Council Homer if I
understand it correctly the reason for
the extended width is to deal with
traffic Vehicles cracking the side of a
2 met
width M
Adams so through the chair we had a 3 m
primary path and that in order to
make that trafficable there wouldn't
really be that much of a change in cost
other than now that we're putting it as
as asheva with road
base the increase would be on the 2 m
wide path to the 3 m wide path
in terms of similar you know if the V
truck was to go on that there is a
chance it could become bogged if it
wasn't trafficable so they deest did
raise that as an issue so the town
recommends that we actually provide a 3
m wide path that's trafficable for the
primary and secondary paths and not
entertain having shoulders that are
non-trackable so defas are under the
impression that the trucks are risk of
being bogged on the proposed well the
the previous construction
pathway that's correct because from
memory it was PE gravel on the side
it wasn't a road construction
pavement do def have any issues with
perimeter fire braks which are less than
PE gravel mostly sand in other
areas sorry the chair I don't believe
that all fire brakes are to the same
standard as what we have been asked to
do for this particular
site thank
you thanks councilor hmer I've
actually got a couple of questions
about this item noting that option
two in the officers report at
paragraph 9B is the one that is being
recommended which says it has
approximately a budget of 200 50,000
excluding
GST is that intended now that I read it
again intended to fall within the
existing budget for this project or is
it an additional
amount M
Adams sorry M could you please reference
the item nber yep so this is
obviously item 13.3 and it's paragraph 9
sub paragraph B lists the description of
option two which is the one you now have
in point one of the recommendation that
we note and it does say it's
approximately
$250,000 excluding GST is this in
addition to the budget that's already
been set for this item based on the
approved detailed
design no Madam mayor so it's not an
addition it's within the budget of
$300,000 that's been set for this stage
one and that stage one does include some
preliminary works as well as the
actual
Pathways all right thank you so the
second question then is Council has
approved the final design of this I
thought it was last year if we approved
the
design previously without the internal
and perimeter paths being 3 m wide and
made of red
asold don't we need to now approve that
that's what will be included rather than
just noting it the way the
recommendation currently reads if this
is basically a change to the approved
design previously M
Adams Madame may we did design we
did review this design and we did
consider how we could word this however
it is a deest requirement that we
don't want to deviate from and the
previous design was I think approved in
December or towards the end of last year
and that was based on community
consultation outcomes and the design
by the landscape
consultant this is a material
literally a material change and we
considered that we would not be
recommending that we don't comply with
that so we have added it as a
note thank you I think you might have
misunderstood my point my point is
that the recommendation to council is
that we just note that the pass will be
3 m wide red a fault whereas the design
we've already approved as a council
presented to us last year did not
include the pass at 3 meters wide made
of this material so I'm actually asking
you shouldn't the recommendation read
that Council one approves that the
perimeter and internal paths will be 3 m
wide red asphalt rather than just notes
that that's what they'll be given we've
already previously approved them to be
something
else M Adams
if you're asking my opinion whether
we should we didn't think so so we
put notes but it is up to council how
they may wish to reword
that all right thank you Miss
Adams thank you I think I will
probably propose moving an amendment
but I think I'm thinking about it so
Council Deo you've got
questions yeah just a question
around the the bitchman do we have
any written advice from defs that says
bman is the only option they will
allow under these circstances or
whether they provide any alternative
materials M
Adams through the chair Deus did not
recommend it has to be rash vault it
is the most it's probably the most
economical option that we could face
there was options of concrete but we
were concerned with how that looked
within a restored Bush site as as
well as potential extra heat that
could be generated from it as we've
said before you know Deus would be happy
with Limestone but that wasn't
considered suitable there is the
option to use that polymer clay
similar to what was in Hy Bushland but
that cost was really high as well and
out of budget so for those reasons we
settled on the red ash
vault okay so I think You' said so
it's it's a cost issue in a sense is one
of the critical factors is that
correct through the chair that is
correct you know the town's
preference would have been to maintain
the the poly paave the polymer clay
so it was nearly twice the
price no further questions but many
things going around in my head as a
result thanks canc de just a
moment
picking up and moving on from
counselor deo's questions so miss Adams
with regards to the clay polymer just so
I understand this not perfectly clear
the the red clay polymer that we have at
the Hillview
Bushland that is a surface that defs
would agree to being in the Kent Street
sampit site is that right have I got
that
right M May that is my understanding yes
and it would have to be trafficable
which is not quite the same as what the
hill viiew Bush landsite one is all
right so when you said it was double the
cost of option two which is the red
asphalt AKA Red bitchman is the clay
polymer a better environmental outcome
for the Kent Street sfit site
than the red asphalt leaving aside the
question for the moment of the cost Miss
Adams
I think it depends M on what is being
weighed up it is a polymer clay so
it's not a completely natural product
and ashel itself is not a natural
product either but they're all derived
from natural-based
materials it it it looks better
aesthetically it fits in better and it
certainly looks more natural and it
wears more naturally so there's also
that
consideration and that was probably the
primary reason why we chose it for the
initial proposed
pathway all right thank you so my next
question is and I'm sorry that I'm
asking you these technical questions at
this stage what is the longevity like of
the the clay polymer version
versus the red asphalt cuz my experience
with bitchman like everyone else in the
town is that it wears down over time but
admittedly this bitchman won have cars
traveling on it so that might make a
difference is Adam
in my experience the poly pave has
less durability than the actual red ash
vault and that can be seen at at
Hillview Bushland where the edges are
cracked where it doesn't have much
pavement if Vehicles do have to access
that and we have had that repaired at
Cost over a nber of a nber of
times in this instance we would have
to make sure that the trafficable
pavement underneath that extended past
it so even though the visible surface is
3 m with all these roads there is a
subbase that actually extends past what
you actually see and I believe that that
would add to the longevity to go to your
question add to the longevity of the
poly paave pathway I would still say it'
be less though than
rashal all right so there's a material
that goes underneath that is wider than
the 3 m how much wider than the 3 m is
it going to be cuz obviously
the question then is what degree of
incursion do we then get into our Bush
land from that I'll call it the base
level is Adams it can be between 300 to
500 Ms so up to half a meter either side
we have looked at that and looked at
the plantings so it does allow for for
the vegetation to actually grow up
naturally around an uncurved surface so
it's not meant to look Stark you like
you're not going to see two different
types of
material will there be a difference in
level between the red asphalt and the
because the
subbase there is a difference in level
but you won't see it it won't the the
ground level will be level with the
actual Road the pavement surface every
road is like that so the Pavements
actually extend under the curvs for
example okay so I'm just it's about
accessibility that there won't be
different levels that will cause a
problem with
accessibility all right So based on
option two in the report being
approximately
$250,000 for red asvt do I understand
based on what you've said that the cost
of doing it for the clay
polymer would be is it double that
amount of money or do you know precisely
how much it would be is it
Adams 10 in the report Madame mayor
references an estimated cost of
$550,000 again that that you know
the cost was actually the either cost
takes into account preliminary costs
Earth Works some removal of
vegetation Etc but 10 does point to an
estimated
cost all right so so I'm clear where it
says the budget is
300,000 and the estimated cost is 550 is
that 250,000 more than the 300 budget or
is it 300,000 Plus
$50,000 M Adams it's a total of 550,000
so another
$250,000 on top of this year's approved
budget for these stage one
works okay in your opinion is it open
to council to give consideration to the
clay polymer poly pave proposal
with a budget amendment is that
something that's a potential
possibility that is a potential
possibility
yes if any elected members have got
questions arising out of my questions
please feel free to ask them while I try
to citate what all that means councelor
minson first then councel hmer thank you
m just on the cost estimate 550,000
for the the clay base with the polymer
overlay what was the the cost
estimate for the clay base overlay cuz I
understand that a significant bit of the
cost was to make that trafficable but
there was a separate standard from for
the original proposal which we could
apply and make it still 3 m wide but it
wouldn't be technically considered
trafficable Miss
Adams hope I'm answering this
correctly but through the chair I
think there's two parts one is that
there is extra cost from what we had
budgeted Ed for based on it becoming
trafficable and 3 m wide so yes but
there was also a change in price between
January 20124 and February 2024 So
within that one month there was what we
had received via our consultant a large
price escalation that exceeded the
budget so I believe it was a component
of both the trafficable you know
additional pavement and cost
escalations so I guess get into is
there an option to for Council to
endorse using the clay based poly sealed
option 3 m wide but to the original
specification with the understanding
that it's unlikely to cause a fire truck
that needs to access it quite rarely to
bog but it might lead to Future higher
renewals and maintenance cost if there
was a
situation where a fire truck would need
to use
it Miss
Adams through the chair I don't
believe the original design that was
approved would meet their requirements
because it was a 2 m wide it was a 2 m
wide poly pave path from memory with a
half a met PE gravel either
side
and it's possible to make maybe slightly
enlarge that and still make sure the
pathway is accessible but yes you're
right it would DET deteriorate and we
would have to fix that up if there
was a
fire so I guess just to clarify there's
two two separate options on the the clay
based poly overlay there's widening it
and then
also bringing up the standard to V
vehicle access so we could just say
well we only want to pick one of that
and say we want to just do the widening
and then accept the accept the
durability
risk yes that's
correct thank
you and sorry last question we don't
when we don't have a cost estimate for
that as an option or I feel that it
would be around the 300,000 budget mark
Miss Adams through the chair I believe
it would be between the 300 and maybe
400 if I had to guess I I think if we're
not going to go full trafficable all for
all Pavements sorry for all paths we
could get it
within it would be higher at the higher
end thank you thanks Council minson
Council
hmer my question was answered thanks
okay that was pretty easy then
I was I am considering moving an
amendment to point one of the officer
recommendation to say to delete the word
notes to change it to approves
because appears from the 2023 April
approved detailed design was to approve
2 m wide Pathways that were made of
clay polymer over seal with PE
gravel on the shoulder that having
been the approved plan that was the
detailed design as
advertised suggests to me that the word
should be approved rather than notes it
so
second accept yeah I can just ask if
councelor Hamer and councelor miles
would accept that amendment in that
change out of the wording from notes to
approves I'm looking for a deeper
Amendment along Daniel's line of
questioning I'm pretty Keen to see the
trafficable component taken out and we
just retained the 3 met width with the
polymer as the
either notes or
approves okay so I'd love a deeper
option to councelor Homer and we
might be able to get there I'd love
it to just be you know a natural path
that every walks and we don't have to
worry about fire trucks but there we are
we're in a different spot so I guess
this is probably just at the moment
about the use of the word approves
versus notes because if you and Council
miles were happy for that to be swapped
out then I don't need to move an
amendment to make that happen that's
completely separate to whether we get to
a different solution all together so
do you have a view on that point at the
moment because if if you're not willing
to do it then I'll just formally move
that
Amendment I'm happy with that notes to
me sounds like there is no actual
change or agreement it's just we're
seeing it happen and seeing it go by so
yeah definitely that makes sense to me
all right Council miles yep that makes
sense to you so now Council you've
thrown it out there you're looking for a
deeper option along the lines of council
minson this is your chance to do that
do you want to talk to him about whether
you have very quickly a proposal to make
that Council can
consider councilor menson you might be
wanting to move an
amendment all yeah so I was proposed to
move an amendment to modif
.1 of item
13.3 to read that Council approves
that the perimeter and internal pass
within the Kent Street sand pit will be
3 m wide and red red clay road road base
overlaid with poly
sealant to sorry just go slowly so we
can make sure the minute secretary's got
it all so it's going to be red clay road
base with poly seal overlay
oh did I get that right maybe you need
to take out red clay just clay will be
fine I
think all
right and to the
original I guess design standard
I'll just ask the minute secretary if
she's managed to get that I suppose
the amendment would really just be to
delete the
words red asphalt and substitute the
words Clay Road base with poly seal
overlay to the original design standard
just make sure she's got it
just ask if want anything mention about
the trafficable
tra while that's going on
councelor
Minon so with your proposal is it your
understanding then that there's no cost
consequences of making this Amendment or
that there are based on the answer
you've received so far so I guess that
my understanding is that there may be a
cost
implication all right so okay on that
basis I'm going to go to the manager of
governance and strategy now if the
impact of councilor menon's proposed
amendment albe it hasn't been seconded
yet it's not on the floor was that has a
cost
consequence we would need to Would we
not have Council approve a budget for
that and that would need to be done
now in order for this amendment to take
effect is that how we need to do that
M
Tucker thank you yes if the original
recommendation included a budget
allocation and this is an increase
requirement in relation to their
financial side of things there will need
to be another further recommendation to
increase the budget so the officers
can put into effect the recommendation
in item one and so that will need to be
a precise amount and it will need to
indicate which budget it has to come
from whether it has to come from a
variation to the existing budget or go
to Future budget Mr
old the budget is $300,000 which is the
2324 budget so the Year we're in I
assing this project or this request is
going to be procured in this year so
therefore we would need to mend the
current
budget yes and we'd need to give a
precise amount in the amendment that
would be being proposed that's my
understanding correcting from the
discussion I understand it's $250,000 y
yep so
$250,000 would be if we were going for
the other option it might be a lesser
amount in if Council minson's point is
able to be well made which is the
original design standard which is the
Lesser
trafficable quantity is that right is
that why I think Miss Adams you
indicated you thought it would be
between 300 and 400,000 would probably
be the lightly
budget I should cave at that that it
actually has to still be acceptable to
Def so it has to be trafficable in some
respect
so knowing that it's trafficable we have
an estimate of
$550,000 you know it will likely be
cheaper if we have some sacrificial
pavement that is trafficable but at this
stage I'd be guessing So based on your
advice then if Council was to entertain
this or want to entertain it the
recommend the amendment would have to
include the additional
250,000 just to make sure that you could
get there with that different product
but to the relevant required standard
have I understood that right that's
correct all right so Council men and
that's important for you to know you
have to take that into account if you
want to make this potential Amendment
work yep while you think on that I'm
going to ask Mr
old where would we find
$250,000 in the existing
budget it's going to make a quick about
of money tree but I would suggest we'
got one of those haven't we I would
suggest we take it from a reserve and
the other infrastructure Reserve is the
most appropriate I can think of right
now all right Miss Adams do you have any
thoughts on that given that this is
effectively like your team's item and
your
budget it's still Town Money Madame
mayor so I would defer to the CFO for
where that money could come from because
as I said we've only got 300,000 we were
trying to fit within that but that's
my response all right so council minson
do you think you have enough information
now to finish off your proposed part
if you think you need more time we've at
least got an indication of one more
question so that might give you more
time to think about it councilor Mel
Rosa it's my understanding correct me if
I'm wrong but the requirement for the
path is based around a fire risk in the
park is that
correct M
Adams through the chair it's based
around Deus being able to access in the
event of a fire access all
parts so my thinking would be that if
we're going into this park to do a
revation a genuine real fire risk won't
exist immediately and it would take some
years before that would occur so my
thinking would be that the risk of a
fire in this space and I acknowledge
that there's a requirement that defs
have sorry councelor melros you can't
actually make a statement at this time a
point need to get there quick need to be
a question thank you
so can we modify this requirement so
that we don't have to build a path
straight away and maybe spread that cost
of that path over a couple of
budgets Miss
Adams through the chair there are
various stages for the works and the
Pathways in their entirety were planned
as stage one to commence this financial
year but if if I'm understanding what
you're saying right you you want to be
able to Stage the costs and perhaps
upgrade the paths along the way we would
want that and my understanding is
also that defus would want that by the
time the the park or the sand pit is
actually open to the public and
accessible then and we're looking at
that in around 2026 from
understanding anything further Council
Marosa Miss Adams your view on
the suitability of leaving the
pathway construction to a later point in
time versus constructing the pathway
now before the vegetation is all planned
and put in place what would be the
impact if we were to consider leaving
the pathway to be the last thing that
went in after everything else was done
we've taken a fair bit of advice and
there's been a lot of design and thought
into the staging and the best thing has
been to do the Pathways in their
entirety first including the yarning
circles so we get those hard harder bits
out of the way harder Landscaping
sorry and then we can move on to the
the ramps and the the the raised the
pathways that we were going to do around
the site after that and then we have the
planting after that
count some
miles sorry I just want to clarify
something because I've possibly
forgotten the last first things that was
said so did you say if we do this clay
with the polymer that the standard will
still be less than if we just went with
the red bimman or you think the clay
with the polymer could be the same
standard in terms of traffic
ability M
Adams through the chair full clarity
the they would both be trafficable and
they would both be to the same standard
it's just the longevity that is likely
to
differ councilor
Cruiser is the expectation that this
path will play a role in restoring the
bush land as well like I I imagine that
as part of the process of
planting and work on it it would be
useful to have a path or is that not the
case Miss Adams don't don't forget we
have an approved detailed design for
what it's going to look like a lot of
people consulted as to where the paths
should go and why they should go in the
places they should go but miss Adams so
through the chair the Pathways in
this s pit are primarily for access to
the site for pedestrians
and there was a bit of history in how
that came about with regards to the
the cultural work that was done in
mapping Etc it is true that in other
Bush lands they used Limestone parts or
they had used Limestone Parts as part of
the restorative efforts because I think
that was to prevent dieback Etc however
that's not found to be good practice now
so we're not using it for the
restoration
efforts all right councilor Minon got
anything for us to consider thank you
yeah maybe I just a question
if the following was included as item
point three of the recommendation to
the words of approves a budget increase
to 550,000 with a funds transfer from
the other infrastructure Reserve would
that give the
I guess the intended outcome that we've
been talking
about I'll go to M Adams first on the
question of whether that would be enough
funds and Mr Old Second as to whether
that's a suitable wording for the
proposed inclusion to achieve the end M
Adams through the chair We Believe
yes it would it would give you what's
detailed in option sorry in item 10 of
the report which is a trafficable
pavement for the primary and secondary
with the poly
pave and Mr old Council minson's
proposal about the wording would that
achieve the end desired for increasing
the budget and where the funds would
come from in the current budget year if
can M can you just repeat
that yes approves a budget increase
to
$550,000 with a funds transfer from the
other infrastructure Reserve
Mr old I just recommend we specifically
name the project so for the purposes of
Kent Street sand pit or whatever we we
call it officially
and so just for clarity so increase
budget of 250 ,000 to be a total of
$550,000 for the project for the
purposes of K Street sand pit to be
taken from the other infrastructure
Reserve so there's no ambiguity if it's
increase of 550 or 250 or
300 clarification Mr old does it need
to refer to that part of the Kent Street
sand pit site project or will it be
sufficient if it just refers to that
project overall by that
name May so I've quickly looked
through the budget that was approved
last year and it's as a C Street sand
pit okay so miss Adams you're
comfortable that if that's what council
decided upon you'd have the requisite
understanding that that's what the
budget increase was going to be for
that's
correct all right councilor minson are
you content to make those additions to
your
wording yeah
would you like me to continue with
the recommendation or with the amendment
just going to get the minute secretary
make sure she's got it up to date yes
there it
is is there any further part of your
propos osed Amendment needed or is that
the completion of it that's it y all
right so okay would you like to explain
oh okay sorry Mr R you've got something
to add before we finalize understanding
what the words might be of this
amendment if I can May so in the budget
it's actually listed as Kent Street
sandpit Bushland management
project we'll be very specific then
all right Council me Council H can I ask
a question of the officers that sure
they're happy with the
term it's really hard to read from this
corner
the original design standards does that
mean the non-traffic when the officers
read
it M
Adams sorry the chair I'd really like it
to say
trafficable Council minson you're
putting this forward you're in the hot
seat so I guess my concern with saying
trafficable is that it's to sounds like
to def's definition of trafficable
obviously any path is
trafficable so if
that's my intent is not to go to
def's definition of trafficable so
I don't don't necessarily want to put
that in there because I'm saying that
trafficable for a fire Tru that might
might use it one one or two times every
years I think I understand where you're
getting to Miss Adams is it the case
just to make this clear that the
original design standard
is trafficable and does meet defs
standards but it wasn't wide enough cuz
originally we had 2 m and understanding
is that's not good enough for
defs so the original pathway through the
chair was not trafficable to defa
standards that's only come about very
recently in March that they had it as a
requirement it was trafficable for light
Vehicles had to maintain and service the
site
and it it really needs to be trafficable
to deeper standards because they might
use it once but you don't want them
getting
bogged so just to clarify
then so the the clay with the
polymer overlay is not trafficable to
defa standards at all is that right
not without the correct trafficable
underlay the
subbase so it's not just what you see
that makes it trafficable so you were
planning to put it in originally without
any subbase but now the increased cost
is from putting in the subbase under the
red clay to make that the trafficable
level with a higher Duty
subbase okay so council menson is that
what you
understood that's what I understood yeah
so what what's the magic then with the
words original design
standard that was to the the line of
questioning
about using that original subbase
requirement with the understanding that
the fire trucks would be unlikely to bog
that it's more about a durability issue
and that was towards the cost estimate
of the 300 to $400,000 was for that
option with the understanding that if a
fire truck was to use it that it not
likely to get bogged but it might likely
crack and tear up the pavement after a
single use and that we were accepting A3
to $400,000 project outcome with the
accept acceptance of risk down the track
that we might have to fix it more often
if a fire truck was able to use
it got it so M Adams based on that do
you consider that the inclusion of the
words original designs standard in
Council menon's proposed amendment is
correct to include that in
there if I could suggest something it
would be to make sure it's to De for
standards but it might be that when we
go back to them and have a discussion it
is not to the standards that are at
$550,000 so there may be scope to say
for a total of up to $550
,000 all right I think Council minson
was trying to avoid using the words to
Def the standards but in any event
Council Menon this is your proposed
amendment now I'm aware that I haven't
yet asked you to set out the reasons but
I'm seeing people with their hands up
so reminding this is only questions
clarifying about what council Minon said
so far Deputy Mayor I thank you I am
not an engineer I have way too many
engineers in my family but my isol over
when they start speaking about engineer
things so I'm finding this quite
tricky to
navigate with what is written up there
right
now would the with Council minson's
proposed amendment would that be
trafficable to Def defs of standard as
it is currently
written I'm going to go to councel
minson first it's your proposed
amendment
I I believe so
that a fire truck would be able to get
down with that proposal
yes M
Adams the original design standards were
not to defus
standards thank you I now have many
things to say but I will wait well In
fairness Council minson has to set out
his full reason and he still has to
argue them in assing he gets a
seconder so there may be clarification
to come and there may be opportunity
then for elected members to ask
questions so Council minson would you be
in a position to be ready to outline
your reason for this proposed amendment
yes proceed thank you so the the
reasoning is to achieve the original
design intent of a naturally aesthetic
path that suits the suits the area and
ties into the the neighboring Bush land
lot with the
understanding
that the defs access is rare and that
we
could offset upfront Capital costs with
increased risk towards
replacement
costs all right thank you so I'm
formally going to ask if there's a
seconder for the proposal or for the
proposed
amendment do have something
are you having trouble counselor Homer
does it say that live voting is not
available yep second has already been
recorded it is it is myself because the
system was recording no
seconder so we have a seconder which is
me councelor minson looking forward to
hearing
thank you so I think we've all got
quite across the issue over the the line
of questioning but yes the proposal is
to use the the Clay Road Bas of the
polyant to tie into the neighboring
aesthetic of the Bushland and the
neighboring area in the Kensington
Bushland
so the the risk here of not meeting
DS's standards I think's low and I think
the town can go out and talk to Def
and explain what I think we've talked
about here and we'll happily
hopefully convince them of the
original design standard being being
appropriate for rare access so we
won't necessarily see the full
$550,000 cost needing to be used
yeah so I encourage you all to vote
in favor the
amendment thanks councelor Minon I'm
seeing people kind of indicating they
want to speak councelor
Cruiser I regret to say I have a
question the red ashal pathway has
been noted as meeting accessibility
requirements would the
sealed clay with poly seal overlay also
meet accessibility requirements or not M
Adams through the chair yes it's a it's
a smooth
surface did I see someone else's hand on
that side no probably just my
imagination all right so as the
seconder I'll speak very briefly
I'm wasn't a fan when I saw these of
the idea that we would basically put
bitchman colored red into our K Street
sampit site because the overriding
intent of that project is the that life
will replicate itself the life of the
jder up Bush land in the Kensington
forever Bush will eventually grow into
the sand pit side and we will see all
that wonderful biodiversity of species
and life growing across and extending
down to Kent Street yeah Kent Street
and so the thought of actually having 3
m
wide red bitchman with potentially
3 to 500 mm worth of pea gravel on
either side feels like quite an
incursion into our Bushland I do like
the red clay with a polymer seal that's
at Hillview Bushland admittedly it's
not nearly so wide it's basically
designed for a person and a Mobility
device so it feels much more natural
and I feel like that's where we were
hoping to be and but for the late news
that def has had some concerns about
their ability to get a truck in there
and not get bogged I take the point
that perhaps the prospect of them
needing to access it is rare I don't
think that the emergency that could
occur in the Bushland is merely limited
to a fire if there were to be someone
who was stranded in the middle of that
sand pit site for a variety of reasons
medical and otherwise not to mention the
possibility for example a sudden
sinkhole or something else to that
effect that might require emergency
services to get in they certainly
need to to have that option but of
course the risk of it is probably a
relatively low risk but when we have to
recognize and mitigate whilst I'm not
a fan of doing this kind of budget
amendment at short notice and relatively
on the Hop as the CFO has indicated
there is some money sitting in an
infrastructure Reserve that could be
used for this and if the town staff
subsequently have that budgetary
discretion available to them and they
can work with defs and they can get some
compromised outcome around the extent
of where the traffic ability needs to be
then it may very well be that we end up
getting that original intent that our
community understood that they would see
in the Bushland not a pile of red
bitchman so for those Reasons I'm
prepared to yeah go forward and and
support this proposed amendment I'm
going to formally ask if there is any
descent and some people might have
questions before they have descent so
I'm taking it three hands went up
somebody in that is dissenting in which
case we will be moving to formal debate
or is it everybody's got a question
first question descent descent okay all
right so we are going to debate Deputy
Mayor I you're indicating you're in
descent so thank you I'm only in
Descent of a very tiny bit of this I
have no issue with it tying in with a
neighboring Bushland and with it being
the poly paave surface I think
that that's actually quite important
I have no issue with the paths being 3
MERS wide I have concern that the
amendment as it's currently written
doesn't meet defs standards and risks
the issue of fire trucks which are
being looked at by the person on my
right which is very distracting but fun
fire trucks ambulances other service
vehicles not being able to get to
some sort of an emergency in the sand
pit now I understand the argent that
it could be
rare but we only need to think about
the smer that we have just experienced
and frankly are still experiencing in
mid April where we've simply had no rain
whatsoever the risk of fires in
places like these Urban Bush spaces I
think is not decreasing in the space
that we're currently operating in and
my house which never felt like it was
needed a bushire plan was under a
watching act when there was a fire at
Kensington Bushland and I got told to
check my bushire plan and make plans for
how I was going to escape and that was
an incredibly odd experience for someone
who lives in the middle of Victoria Park
so I would feel much more confident and
comfortable if this amendment was
specifying that these paths would be to
defs standards so unless it's that I'm
not willing to support it thank
you thanks Deputy Mayor e is there
anyone now who wishes to speak for the
amendment Council
hmer thanks m v I think the definition
of traffic is something that seems to be
debated having some experience rural
with fire brakes and access to different
places I mean there's always helicopters
but light Vehicles Land Cruisers ules
would have no trouble on the pathway
that we're that this amendment is
proposing obviously having fullsize fire
trucks would have
a longevity issue with the path and some
damage which if that was going to happen
once or twice in the In Our Lifetime
then that would be totally within the
cost saving of not spending $550,000 to
make it deal with that possible use
so it seems to be like spending way
too much money on something that is very
unlikely to happen and there is to me no
risk that any Vehicles won't be able to
access anything with a 3M width so I
would be very happy to have this not
contain the red bitchman and link up
with the other the other areas that we
have are joining thanks thanks councelor
hmer councelor Cruiser do you wish to
speak against do you have a question yep
sure my question is given the budget
increase here does this amendment imply
spending more money than the original
officer
proposal M Adams
I suppose through the chair the short
answer is
yes the original proposal was meant to
fit within
$300,000 yes Council
Cruiser is now an appropriate time to
speak against or was there somebody
else in line for that no no you are
entitled to speak against we've had a
speaker for in Council hmer so yes you'd
like to proceed
while I do think that it is a
wonderful idea to strongly question
whether we need ashel
roads in any particular
place
[Music]
the outcome of this motion seems to
be that we will be less well prepared
for the event of an emergency in that
area I'm also thinking about as
climate change incre as the impacts of
climate change hit us is not just
worrying about a single fire truck
getting in once with a nice leisurely
time afterwards to repair the surface
it seems like we might have the kind of
situation where we need multiple
vehicles to get in at some point it
might be that we have a really terrible
Fire season where there isn't a nice
break in in between for repairing the
surface so that all seems quite
worrying as a plan to say well we'll
plan that it will break and we will fix
it in between
uses I'm also heartened that the
original officer prop proposal does
include consultant Consultants with
NOA people
who are from the area who said that they
are okay with the
ashalt and I think also some of the
justifications given for this amendment
seem to be that will save us money
because it won't be trafficable but as
far as I understand it this will in fact
cost more for a surface that is less
Hardy and
has more downsides in terms of fire
management and other emergency service
access
thanks councelor Cruiser is there
someone who'd now like to speak in favor
of the proposed amendment Council
Anderson you have a
question all right okay anyone else
who's got a question yep
sure microphone please I was under the
impression this amendment would result
in it being cheap and I know we just
discussed this but is the price of the
ashal option 300,000 or rounds about
Miss
Adams the red ash vault option is
estimated to be within that
$300,000 budget that we have approved
yes and followup question is and I just
been Googling around at things just
checking up stuff and ashalt comes in
more than just red color so was there
any investigation into the other color
ranges that were available for us
is Adams to the chair yes there was
there were a few options that were put
forward there were some that were a
limestone color themselves and that
wasn't ashal that was concrete so it
was easy to color the concrete it
becomes quite bright when you start to
color ashal so we did look at a nber
of different options of materials and
colors yes
thanks Council melrosa so is there
someone else who wishes to speak now for
the proposed
amendment anyone councilor dero sorry
you got kind of in first but you giving
way to councelor Mel Rosa is that what
you're saying councelor Mel
Rosa bit torn on this but like I get
that this red ashalt doesn't fit the
vibe
but also I just feel like we're
forgetting that the fire station is
literally next door
and I'm not sure how often this bush
would burn I mean it probably will burn
more as you know climate change heats up
I guess but the dest has vehicles
that can access this kind of track I
mean when you look around at Perth it's
all the bush land around and it makes me
wonder if this is the new standard for
Bushland Urban Bush land then is is this
expectation going to then become
something that we all need to abide by
because it seems rather costly for
such a small amount of space for
Bushland next door fire
station Miss
Adams I think that's a valid question
and that might be where some of the
confusion is because this path is doing
double duty it's actually meant to be an
accessible path as well as being a fire
accessible path so in terms of
whether you know you're going to be
seeing that in the future I don't know
but I do know that for this site where
we have restoration efforts and we can't
use Limestone and we've had a meeting
with Deus on site as well in April to
to check this they are not comfortable
with not having a non-t tral path where
they could potentially get bogged that
might not be to the standard of a full
fully costed
$550,000 path but we would still be
wanting it to be to the required
design
standards Council Deo you had your hand
up
before it wasn't a question though are
you were ready to speak were you yeah
were you wanting to speak for because
we'd had a speaker against
I kind of spoke for it but yeah it was
probably more for than against so let's
just I found it rather obuse it was four
I I will clarify it was four all right
four all right that Bas the speaker
against councilor Anderson okay thank
you May I looking at the amendment
there are elements of it bit like Deputy
Mayor that I do support and I'm
particularly support the additional
allocation of funds however what I'm
really struggling with is that there's
been a meeting with the Department of
fire and Emergency Services just take a
moment to acknowledge that the Emergency
Services we've met with them and they've
given us their advice now these are the
vehicles that they use in the middle of
an emergency I I have never been in
one of these vehicles in an emergency I
would rely on technical experts to guide
my decision and even if it's we talk
about it might happen once well then
once is enough and my responsibility is
to assess situations identify the risk
and put the strategies in place and if
the advice I'm being given is from defus
that this is what they require even if
there's a fire station nearby they might
need to bring their trucks through they
they might be close but they still might
need to bring them through and that it
just really concerns me that it might
happen once so do we need to increas the
additional funds well yes because we
have a responsibility to the legacy of
this bush land and to the people who use
it and so I won't be supporting this
amendment thanks Council Anderson I have
a question for Ms Adams So based on
the options that were contained in the
officers report if we were to build
this with the original intended clay
base with the poly polymer overseal with
the appropriate subbase on it that would
meet DS's standards for trafficable
Quality have I understood that
correctly Madame if you were to go
with what is proposed in that item 10
yes okay so is it your understanding
that that's effectively what what
council menon's Amendment
means my understanding of what he
intended was to not have the full
$550,000 option but perhaps see with
defus if there is something that
still meets their
standards but albe it not for maybe a
regular traffick route so we could have
a a less a standard that still meets
their design standard that was my
understanding of what he would B okay so
my question now to councelor minson is
is that
correct that's right and as you as you
can see that the second Point has
approved for the budget up to the
$550,000 so it does give you the option
to go to the full requirement but
okay thank you I wanted that
clarification thank you so now we've
had a speaker against anyone who wants
to speak for councilor dero
thanks M Vernon
I
spoke to clus Becka today he
talked about this
sampit that he's worked on for so
long he talked about his concern
about a bitman road through the
sand pit that's aimed at being best
practice world best practice
restoration I find it hard to
possibly imagine anything in the world
being described as best practice
restoration with a bitchman 3M path
through it I don't believe it
would be
true to the the plan for the S pet to
go ahead with this if and I feel like
the the budget ocation does allow
some negotiation with defs to find an
appropriate solution to the extent it's
required without locking in
bitchman which as I understand from the
answer to my questions wasn't essential
from def's side and that really
cost was also a significant factor I
think fact the cost Factor has been
resolved with this amendment and if
we can't proceed with this I feel
like we really need to rethink the
sandpit and the fire options and
see more information about defs
guidelines for roads through Bush
areas and a clearer range of
possibilities so my view is we
should proceed with this Amendment
as proposed given it's got some Regal
room in terms of budget and it
discussion with defs and clearly if the
staff feel after that process it's not
working they'll come back to us
but in keeping with the restoration
focus of the sampit I really support the
amendment thank
you thanks councelor Deo councelor
Cruiser first for questions then Deputy
Mayor
e when discussing this with DZ was
there discussion about concerns with the
ashol to say look is there anything else
that we could possibly do was there a
detailed exploration of the Alternatives
or what whether there were
Alternatives M
Adams through the chair we did have
that discussion I think it was on the
8th of April with them about a nber of
Alternatives so from their point of view
they just want something
that can withstand the weight of their
truck so we call that trafficable and
traverses the the site and also they the
other point they brought up was nber
two of our recommendation about having
the second entry point so that was what
that conversation consisted of they were
not wed to a certain
type anything further councilor
Cruiser Miss Adams to clarify from
that so the three options that are
listed Ed at paragraph 9 from
Consultants emerge they are the three
options the town considered to meet
def's
requirements that's
correct right thank you Deputy Mayor e
then councilor hmer thank you two
questions firstly it's in going on from
the question you just asked M Vernon
paragraph 10 I believe also meets DS
standards is that
correct Miss Adams that's correct
given that my only concern about this
proposed amendment is the word the words
the original design standards I would
like if I can some governance advice on
whether I am at a able at this stage to
foreshadow an amendment that if this one
fails in we would I would put forward an
amendment that uses the exact same
wording but in the place of original
design standards we replace negotiated
defs
standards all right so I can get you
that advice but obviously there is an
option for you to invite the Mover of
this amendment to make that change
without you needing to foreshadow an
alternative it's all lost but manager
of governance and strategy advice to
Deputy Mayor I please that would be the
better option if the Mover and second
accept that change I would be thrilled
if the Mover and secondary accepted that
change but I was concerned that they may
not because they had been expressed
concern that they didn't want it to meet
defs standards earlier all right before
I go to the Mover and the seconder
further clarification question to miss
Adams in light of hearing that question
and those answers given in terms of
the wording the original design
standards do you have a view on what
might be appropriate wording other than
the use of the word the original design
standards M Adam so that can be
considered too U Madame mayor I would
recommend that we could say the
required design standards and that would
leave it open for the town to explore a
nber of options all right so that's
something for Deputy Mayor I to take on
board I'm now going to ask Daniel Minon
Council minson sorry counselor vson
having heard some of that is there some
interest in your part in suggesting a
slight wording change to your Amendment
before I ask the
seconder yes yeah having heard
elected members concerns I'm happy with
a required design standards for clarity
for everyone that if that makes everyone
comfortable to get the outcome thank you
as the second I'd be happy with that so
that gives some information all
right well Council H are you did have
a
question thanks m v can the officers
shed some light on the discussions had
with def which weren't shared or written
if a fire truck did enter the pit
Ken Street sand pit using a 3M
trafficable path would it then need a
turning CAC or would it have to reverse
out of
this
path beep beep beep yeah reversing Miss
Adams
I have to say something at this stage
that's funny through the chair it's a
circular path so they were satisfied
with with the layout that we
had anything further councilor h no
thanks all right is there anyone else
who wishes to speak on this before I go
back to the move to close the
debate no going to go back then to the
moover to close the debate councilor
minson thank you I think we've got to
a good outcome here now hopefully
that most elected members will vote in
favor for the amended motion i' just
like to I guess repeat some of Peter Deo
councelor deo's comments that the
friends of jedar up Bushland strongly
support the inclusion of a clay road
base with a polymer sealant as as the
option for obvious reasons of making it
consistent with the the neighboring
Bushland and is as you're saying best
practice restoration and I think you
know we this is quite a you know an
important site in the town of Victoria
Park it's our really only accessible
Bush land for people to go and enjoy and
be close to kind of original Bushland of
the area so it would be a disservice
I think to not spend the money and do it
properly so I think we can get
through the has access issues with
the new required wording I think
everyone should be comfortable that will
get to a safe outcome so I
encourage you all to support the
amendment thanks Council minson it's
time to vote on the amendment
declare that carried unanimously thank
you thank you councilor minson for
putting that forward thank you to
everyone who helped with your
contributions to the important
discussion so a good outcome I think in
the circstances thank you everyone
so item 15 on the agenda oh sorry oh
that's right we do we have to go back to
the original one and this does
require an absolute majority because of
the budget amendment but I'm going to
formally now ask is there any descent no
there being no descent declare that
carried unanimously thank you item 14
the Chief Financial Officer reports 14.1
and 14.2 have been dealt with by
exception resolution is that right yes
yep item 15 committee reports we have
none item 16 applications for leave of
absence the recommendations that Council
approves a leave of absence for
councelor Jesse Homer for 7 May
2024 happy to move that can I have a
second
please move myself May Vernon second
to councilor minson is there any descent
there being no desent declare that
carried unanimously thank
you item 17 motion of which previous
notice has been given there's only
one motion that's 17.1 which is my
notice of motion it is a notice of
motion that Council approves mayor Karen
Vernon to attend the Australian local
government Association National General
Assembly and Australian Council of local
government in Cambra from 2 to 4 July
2024 and to be a voting Delegate for the
town the reason for this is set
out in the papers but in short the
national general assembly is the one
opportunity that elected members from
across the country get to come together
together and discuss matters that
are significant for the local government
sector and also there will be over 150
likely motions on the floor to be
debated by voting delegates that are
all for advocacy to be made by alga
the Australian local government
Association on behalf of the sector so
it's an important opportunity to be
part of those conversations and with the
federal government's current decision
as of last year to reintroduce the
longtime Australian Council of local
government that turned out to be a
one-day event which was very useful
to get the opportunity to both hear
directly from Ministers of the current
federal government and also to speak to
some of them in and around their
presentation so could I seek a second
please for
motion seconded Deputy Mayor I to
formally ask is there any
descent there being no descent declare
that courage unanimously thank you
item 18 questions from Members without
notice do we have any questions from
Members without
notice councilor
H thanks M do we have any update on the
petition about Rutland expecting that
tonight no nothing presented so far
so no any other questions councilor
melrosa I asked a question last week
about whether we could get the
addresses of of the people that
submitted to the SDA or at least the
suburb that they live in would be good
but I'm not sure what the outcome is yet
that is contained in the agenda for
tonight miss Mar good through the
chair we did ask for that they declin to
give us specifics they gave us very
generalities as May Vernon said there
is General reference to that in the
report in the further comment section so
there's a bit of a breakdown of where
everyone comes from but certainly not
the addresses of people any further
questions without notice no being no
further questions without notice we'll
move on to item 19 new business of an
urgent nature introduced by decision of
the meeting we have none item 20 public
question time I will open at 8:34 p.m.
there being no persons remaining in
the public Gallery I'll close public
question time at 8:34 p.m. item 21
public statement time there being no
persons of public present we have no
questions from the public item 22
meeting close to the public we do have
one such matter however we've reached
two hours of sitting time and in
accordance with our usual practice I'm
going to propose that we do now have
a break however we could time this so
that we have the break but we also
move the procedural motion to close the
meeting to the public that way those
officers of the Town who are not
required to stay for this item can be
able to go and not have to come back
after the 10-minute short break so I'm
I'm going to formally move that
Council one closes the meeting to
members of the public at
836 p.m. to consider item
22.11 in accordance with Section
5.23 subsection 2 Sub paragraph a of the
Local Government Act 1995 and two
permits the chief executive officer the
manager of governance and strategy and
the minute secretary to remain in the
chamber during discussion in
accordance with Clause
27 subsection 3 sub paragraph a of the
town of Victoria Park meeting procedures
local law
2019 can I seek a second please for that
councilor H has indicated he'll
second so I'm formally going to ask
is there any descent to that requirement
no there being no descent I'll
declare that carried
unanimously and right on Q it's 8:36
p.m. and I'll now declare the council
meeting is closed thank you into
close
session so good evening again
everyone it's 10:17 p.m. and we are now
resed this council meeting back open
to the public from the confidential
session I can now read out the
resolution of Council in the
confidential session resolution of
council is that Council one notes the
resignation of the chief executive
officer two agrees that Friday 14 June
2024 is to be the final day of the chief
executive officer's
employment three approves the
appointment of Natalie Adams to be
acting chief executive officer from the
last working day of the CEO's employment
for a period of 3
months and thereafter Natalie Martin
good and David doy be appointed
co-acting
CEOs until the CEO position is filled on
a permanent
basis four offers the acting chief
executive officers a salary in
accordance with Clause 11 of policy
005 acting chief executive
officer and for the co-acting
appointment a suitable sharing
arrangement of salary to be agreed with
Council five commences the recruitment
of an independent recruitment consultant
to coordinate the CEO recruitment
process on behalf of the town and six
commences the recruitment process for an
independent person to be a member of the
selection
panel
that is the last of the confidential
items and so there being no further
business of this council meeting I
declare the meeting closed at
10:19 p.m. thank you very much everyone
and thank you to those watching our live
streaming where adjourned thank you